TIP Hangs Win XP Home

[Richard Joyner]

I recently downloaded Steve Gibson's "Trouble In Paradise" program to
analyze several 1GB and 2GB Jaz disks that I am having problems with. I am
running TIP on a Windows XP Home Edition system. On almost every occasion,
the testing seems to end prematurely with the "Last Error" field reading "-
Unknown Error -". Once the test has "completed", my machine is then hung: I
can't seem to run any other applications--nor can I open Task Manager--once
this has happened. I have to do a hard reboot. Sometimes, in the "Explain
Results" tab, I get the "Something is VERY WRONG Somewhere" page; at other
times, TIP just ejects the cartridge, and seems to wait for a cartridge to
be inserted.

On a couple of occasions, my anitvirus program--Norton AntiVirus 2004--has
had to be uninstalled and reinstalled after TIP has run.

It seems obvious that there are problems with either my Jaz disks or my Jaz
drive, but I am concerned as to why TIP would cause my entire machine to
hang, and corrupt my antivirus program.

Can you tell me what the "- Unknown Error -" signifies, and why TIP would
cause my machine to lock up, so that I have to hard reboot? FYI, my Jaz
drive is an internal SCSI, running off an Adaptec 2930 SCSI host controller,
and I have downloaded the latest Adaptec ASPI drivers for Win XP (v4.71.2).

Thanks for any help!

- Richard Joyner

[Rick]

Post by Richard Joyner
I recently downloaded Steve Gibson's "Trouble In Paradise" program to
analyze several 1GB and 2GB Jaz disks that I am having problems with. I am
running TIP on a Windows XP Home Edition system. On almost every occasion,
the testing seems to end prematurely with the "Last Error" field reading "-
Unknown Error -". Once the test has "completed", my machine is then hung: I
can't seem to run any other applications--nor can I open Task Manager--once
this has happened. I have to do a hard reboot. Sometimes, in the "Explain
Results" tab, I get the "Something is VERY WRONG Somewhere" page; at other
times, TIP just ejects the cartridge, and seems to wait for a cartridge to
be inserted.
On a couple of occasions, my anitvirus program--Norton AntiVirus 2004--has
had to be uninstalled and reinstalled after TIP has run.
It seems obvious that there are problems with either my Jaz disks or my Jaz
drive, but I am concerned as to why TIP would cause my entire machine to
hang, and corrupt my antivirus program.
Can you tell me what the "- Unknown Error -" signifies, and why TIP would
cause my machine to lock up, so that I have to hard reboot? FYI, my Jaz
drive is an internal SCSI, running off an Adaptec 2930 SCSI host controller,
and I have downloaded the latest Adaptec ASPI drivers for Win XP (v4.71.2).
Thanks for any help!
- Richard Joyner

It sounds like it may be the other way around - the anti virus software
is likely conflicting with TIP since TIP is an intensive write/read
application. Have you tried closing all other applications - especially
the AV software - before starting TIP?

Rick

[Richard Joyner]

Yes, I have tried closing down as many programs/processes as I could before
running TIP--including the antivirus--but I still run into the same "-
Unknown Error -". I've run TIP on two different Jaz drives (1 internal, 1
external, both SCSI) with the same or similar results. The TIP tests seem to
follow a pattern: when the test starts, things run fine, and the disk will
occasionally accumulate soft errors from time to time; however, when the
test gets to about 15-20%, it abruptly stops racking up soft errors, and
starts racking up HARD errors until the "- Unknown Error - " is reached. At
that point, TIP still reports progress through the sectors, but the the
activity light on the drive is no longer lit. The test ends with Windows
hung, requiring a hard reboot...

Post by Rick
It sounds like it may be the other way around - the anti virus software
is likely conflicting with TIP since TIP is an intensive write/read
application. Have you tried closing all other applications - especially
the AV software - before starting TIP?
Rick

[Rick]

Post by Richard Joyner
Yes, I have tried closing down as many programs/processes as I could before
running TIP--including the antivirus--but I still run into the same "-
Unknown Error -". I've run TIP on two different Jaz drives (1 internal, 1
external, both SCSI) with the same or similar results. The TIP tests seem to
follow a pattern: when the test starts, things run fine, and the disk will
occasionally accumulate soft errors from time to time; however, when the
test gets to about 15-20%, it abruptly stops racking up soft errors, and
starts racking up HARD errors until the "- Unknown Error - " is reached. At
that point, TIP still reports progress through the sectors, but the the
activity light on the drive is no longer lit. The test ends with Windows
hung, requiring a hard reboot...

Post by Rick
It sounds like it may be the other way around - the anti virus software
is likely conflicting with TIP since TIP is an intensive write/read
application. Have you tried closing all other applications - especially
the AV software - before starting TIP?
Rick

That's not good. If TIP suddenly reports a huge jump in the number of
any errors or reports large numbers of hard errors you have a drive in
serious trouble. It sounds like the test is exhausting the spare sector
pool once it hits the hard error problem and the drive's firmware is
just belching on the problem at that point. Once the spare sector pool
is depleted the drive can no longer be counted on to reliably write data
to that particular disk.

You should also be aware that TIP is not reliable testing 1G cartridges
in a 2G drive because the drive has to overwrite the wider tracks
several times with narrow heads in order to fill out the entire track
width. (Same applies to testing 100MB Zip disks in a 250 drive.) The
only reliable way to run the test is with a disk being used in the
native drive it's designed for: 1G disks in 1G drives, 2G disks in 2G
drives.

Beyond TIP, do you have any disks you can spare to run a long format on?
(With the Iomega software.) If the Iomega format routine fails around
the 30% mark after several tries it indicates a problem with the drive
heads when switching to the second side of the disk. Which may back up
the experience you are having when TIP tries to assess the disks. That
being the case, the drive needs to be replaced.

Rick

[Richard Joyner]

I have just purchased a BRAND NEW SEALED 2GB Jaz disk and a "like new",
"guarnateed against DOA" internal 2GB Jaz drive from eBay. I will follow the
instructions on Steve Gibson's Click Death site once the new drive is
installed. I will keep you posted as to my progress...

Post by Rick

Post by Richard Joyner
Yes, I have tried closing down as many programs/processes as I could before
running TIP--including the antivirus--but I still run into the same "-
Unknown Error -". I've run TIP on two different Jaz drives (1 internal, 1
external, both SCSI) with the same or similar results. The TIP tests seem to
follow a pattern: when the test starts, things run fine, and the disk will
occasionally accumulate soft errors from time to time; however, when the
test gets to about 15-20%, it abruptly stops racking up soft errors, and
starts racking up HARD errors until the "- Unknown Error - " is reached. At
that point, TIP still reports progress through the sectors, but the the
activity light on the drive is no longer lit. The test ends with Windows
hung, requiring a hard reboot...

Post by Rick
It sounds like it may be the other way around - the anti virus software
is likely conflicting with TIP since TIP is an intensive write/read
application. Have you tried closing all other applications - especially
the AV software - before starting TIP?
Rick

That's not good. If TIP suddenly reports a huge jump in the number of
any errors or reports large numbers of hard errors you have a drive in
serious trouble. It sounds like the test is exhausting the spare sector
pool once it hits the hard error problem and the drive's firmware is
just belching on the problem at that point. Once the spare sector pool
is depleted the drive can no longer be counted on to reliably write data
to that particular disk.
You should also be aware that TIP is not reliable testing 1G cartridges
in a 2G drive because the drive has to overwrite the wider tracks
several times with narrow heads in order to fill out the entire track
width. (Same applies to testing 100MB Zip disks in a 250 drive.) The
only reliable way to run the test is with a disk being used in the
native drive it's designed for: 1G disks in 1G drives, 2G disks in 2G
drives.
Beyond TIP, do you have any disks you can spare to run a long format on?
(With the Iomega software.) If the Iomega format routine fails around
the 30% mark after several tries it indicates a problem with the drive
heads when switching to the second side of the disk. Which may back up
the experience you are having when TIP tries to assess the disks. That
being the case, the drive needs to be replaced.
Rick

[Richard Joyner]

Yesterday I installed the 2GB Jaz drive I purchased from eBay, and promptly
ran TIP tests on a BRAND NEW SEALED 2GB Jaz disk. Here is a summary of my
results thus far:

TIP Test #1: Went MUCH FASTER than previous tests, reporting only 329 soft
errors amd 17 hard errors. Nevertheless, I was presented with the "Something
is VERY WRONG Somewhere.." results page. My machine was not hung.

TIP Test #2: Even FASTER than test #1. About a third as many soft errors
(129), and 15 hard errors. Same results page as for test #1, but this time,
my machine was hung, and had to to do a hard reboot.

TIP Test #3: 142 soft errors, 15 hard errors. Same results page as for tests
#1,2. Machine was NOT hung.

TIP Test #4: Guess my luck couldn't hold out. ONLY 17 soft errors, but the
test hit the dreaded "- Unknown Error -", the drive activity light went out,
and the test racked up 6404 hard errors. Had to do a hard reboot.

Steve Gibson's Click Death page does say to run TIP "a few times" on a new
disk and drive. How times would do you think is enough before my drive can
be cleared for reliable operation (i.e. no more hard errors)?

[Rick]

Post by Richard Joyner
Yesterday I installed the 2GB Jaz drive I purchased from eBay, and promptly
ran TIP tests on a BRAND NEW SEALED 2GB Jaz disk. Here is a summary of my
TIP Test #1: Went MUCH FASTER than previous tests, reporting only 329 soft
errors amd 17 hard errors. Nevertheless, I was presented with the "Something
is VERY WRONG Somewhere.." results page. My machine was not hung.
TIP Test #2: Even FASTER than test #1. About a third as many soft errors
(129), and 15 hard errors. Same results page as for test #1, but this time,
my machine was hung, and had to to do a hard reboot.
TIP Test #3: 142 soft errors, 15 hard errors. Same results page as for tests
#1,2. Machine was NOT hung.
TIP Test #4: Guess my luck couldn't hold out. ONLY 17 soft errors, but the
test hit the dreaded "- Unknown Error -", the drive activity light went out,
and the test racked up 6404 hard errors. Had to do a hard reboot.
Steve Gibson's Click Death page does say to run TIP "a few times" on a new
disk and drive. How times would do you think is enough before my drive can
be cleared for reliable operation (i.e. no more hard errors)?

Well, now working backward to your original post, there's no support for
your problem:

http://www.iomega.com/europe/support/english/documents/11113e.html

"The following Iomega drives and software work with Windows XP native
drivers but are not supported by Iomega."

So an answer won't be forthcoming from Iomega.

You are going to have to go down the standard SCSI troubleshooting check
list. Checking for properly seated cables, proper termination of the
card and SCSI devices, no conflicts in device manager, and definitely no
IRQ or resource sharing with the SCSI card. (Probable, if you have any
networking installed.) You don't want a SCSI BIOS enabled for a Jaz
drive. You will also want to check your computer BIOS settings to see if
you have options to prevent the SCSI card from sharing an IRQ or
resources with other devices. (And then see if XP is going to be happy
with that...)

Considering the wonky behavior of TIP there it appears something about
the device is not set up correctly. You never want to see hard errors
reported - it indicates the drive is failing all possible methods to
write correctly to a disk. But since I'm not using XP I can't help out
much more than this.

Rick